Sergey Valerievich Naidenko. Photo by Olga Merzlyakova / Scientific Russia
What do we know about ecology as a science? How is it related to evolution? Why is the activity of the nature conservation enthusiasts not always beneficial? How can we ensure that the advice and warnings of scientists are heard? What are the environmental consequences of the oil spill in the Black Sea? What can each of us do to preserve nature? Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Sergei Valerievich Naidenko, Director of the A.N. Severtsov Institute of Ecology and Evolution of the Russian Academy of Sciences, talks about this.
Sergey Valerievich Naidenko is a zoologist, Doctor of Biological Sciences, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and a specialist in remote observation of animals, ecology and reproductive biology of wild cats. He defended his PhD thesis on the topic of "Social behavior of lynx and features of its formation in ontogenesis" and his doctoral dissertation on the topic of "Biology of reproduction of felines. Mechanism of reproductive success". His scientific interests include the study of the physiological state of vertebrates, behavioral ecology of mammals, and the formation of species-specific behavior in ontogenesis.
— Many people think that ecology is not polluting the environment. In fact, it is a science that is studied by more than one institute. What is it?
— Ecology is the science of the relationship between organisms and the environment. These are adaptations, adaptations of organisms, reactions to environmental factors, which include other animals and humans. But now, unfortunately, this term has such a huge number of interpretations that it is not very clear how to interpret it correctly in a specific situation. When people start talking about environmental ecology, I do not really understand what they are talking about, because there is no such concept. Now, in the common sense, everything that is connected with our environment is ecology.
— How is ecology connected to evolution?
— In the most direct way possible, because the process of evolution is, in fact, a process of adaptation to certain environmental conditions. If the territory is open, it is very important for you to run fast, if it is closed, then using the example of my beloved cats, we see that it is important for you to sneak up carefully. If it is cold around, you need to adapt to the cold. Thus, all evolution is a process of adaptation. It follows that as soon as external conditions change (temperature, humidity in a particular region), the biotope changes, the forest is cut down or burns out, the adaptation of organisms to new conditions begins. Some die out, some die locally, some appear in their place, some organisms simply change, adapting to the environment.
A classic story: in England, milk was carried in bottles covered with foil and left in front of the house. A new food resource appeared for tits, but they had to learn how to open the foil covering. They learned, they opened it. There you have it: the environment changed, a new adaptation appeared, ecological changes occurred in the species.
— Didn’t they stop bringing such bottles?
— Yes, then the resource disappeared and the tits had to adapt again. What is happening now with the tiger in the Far East is a big, although expected, problem. The tiger is adapted to the fact that its main prey is the wild boar. It is not for nothing that the tiger is known as a "boar herder": it follows the herds, kills a young pig, eats it for five to seven days, staying in one place, then goes on to pursue the herd. The share of wild boar in its diet is 50-60%. Now in the Russian Far East, as a result of African swine fever, the number of wild boar has sharply decreased by two orders of magnitude. And that's it — the tiger has nothing to eat.
— What do they eat now?
— Then the tiger begins to adapt, actively hunting sika deer, somewhere — red deer, in the northern regions there is also elk. But the number of these prey is absolutely insufficient to feed the tiger. In addition, unlike all the ungulates listed, which give birth to one cub per year, a pig can give birth to 12 piglets, which will grow up by autumn and provide excellent food for the tiger. And now there is hunger, winter, it is difficult to hunt ungulates, there are few wild boars, the tiger is looking for at least something. It goes to villages, finds dogs, sometimes livestock. This scares people.
— Maybe they should throw out domestic pigs to feed the tigers?
— No one will throw out pigs in such quantities. It will be very expensive. We currently have about 750 tigers, one tiger eats 50 ungulates per year, one per week. We’d need to provide 35 thousand pigs.
— In the Sailyugem National Park, where the main protected species is the snow leopard, which feeds mainly on ungulates, there is also a problem of food shortage. Snow leopards raid grazing domestic ungulates, and the national park began to compensate the local population for these material losses from the funds of the specially created Irbis Fund. What is your attitude to this?
— This is a real problem, and the solution is real, it works. Moreover, it works in the Far East, at least there the Far Eastern Leopard Fund adheres to the same strategy. As for the tiger, I am not ready to say whether the Amur Tiger pays or not. At some point, tiger sacrifices were paid. But the main thing here is to build this system correctly. Both the leopard and the snow leopard in Sailyugem have it a little easier, because these are relatively small areas. When we talk about a tiger in the Far East, these are huge territories: half of the Khabarovsk Territory, the entire Primorsky Territory, the Amur Region and a little bit of the Jewish Autonomous Region. But we need to check that those are really tigers feeding, otherwise it will be a scam, people will come and say that a cow has disappeared again, they should pay. Secondly, the problem now is not so much that people are worried and want to get money for their dogs. Some have lost a friend who was taken straight off the chain a few meters away from home. This means that a tiger simply comes to a village and walks through the village at night. Nobody likes this anymore, because everyone has children, and adults do not want to meet a tiger. I would not want to either. There is another problem here - not only monetary compensation, but also safety. This is a standard situation for the winter period, it is just very pronounced now because of the situation with the wild boar. It will ease by summer.
— But then winter will come again. Is there a more permanent solution?
— There are several solutions, we discuss them often. Firstly, we need to very clearly combat poaching, primarily with regard to ungulate species. There was even talk about a complete ban on hunting, but I am a pragmatic person and I do not think that this is possible in principle, given the Far East. Hunting will take place, but ideally it would be better to make this hunting completely legal and carried out according to the calculated standards: how many deer can be harvested, how many moose.
— Is this realistic?
— It is very difficult to eliminate poaching because of the vast spaces, but this is the most necessary measure. Secondly, we need to reduce the anthropogenic pressure on the collection of pine nuts. Now the nuts are collected in tons, exported to China, and all this is animal feed, especially in the autumn, when fattening is taking place and it is important to eat something. For ungulates, including wild boar and deer, these are the main sources of food. Logging was very active, some of the productive forests in terms of animal feed have already been destroyed. But the most unpleasant thing is not even that they have been destroyed, but that a lot of logging roads have been laid in the forest, which provide an opportunity for people in cars - hunters, poachers - to penetrate deeper into the forest, take the prey.
— How can we increase the number of wild boar?
— This is the most painful question. I don’t have an answer. The problem is big. Theoretically, we can say that we need to develop a vaccine against African swine fever. The institute can’t handle it, it’s not our profile. Colleagues haven’t managed it yet either. The result is that the mortality rate of wild boar is extremely high, almost all of them die from it. I don’t believe in a quick recovery of wild boar precisely because the plague doesn’t go away, it remains — the virus remains active for a long time, is present in wild boar populations. But this is not only our problem, no one has created a vaccine yet.
— If it were suddenly created, how would you use it?
— Vaccination of some animals is already a big plus. This means that at least some of the animals survive the outbreak of the epizootic and can reproduce. This means that at some point there will be a guaranteed increase in numbers. Secondly, we have large pig farms, and veterinarians have one approach — we need to shoot the wild boar. This is called "depopulation": a sharp reduction in its numbers so that it cannot spread the pathogen and in no case bring it to the pig farm, otherwise it will become a big problem, the entire herd will die. In this situation, you can at least vaccinate the pigs in the pig farms and not try to shoot the boar, leave it alone.
— Environmental organizations promoting so-called green living are very active now. I heard that sometimes their activities bring not only pluses, but also minuses. Is that true?
Sergey Valerievich Naidenko. Photo by Olga Merzlyakova / Scientific Russia
— You noticed correctly. Very different organizations, very different people. What I like most about people is the ability not only to listen, but also to hear and understand what they are being talked about, what is needed and what is not. My colleagues and I now have the following situation with the Black Sea, with the fuel oil spill: colleagues from the centers that accept birds are trying to save them, complained about the environmentalists, who can even interfere with work. There is quite a lot of waste there, because when a bird gets covered in fuel oil, it is difficult to save it. People try, they try, they are great, but not all birds need to be saved. Recently, these centers have been receiving migratory birds that flew past and, as often happens, hit themselves somewhere, weakened somewhere. From the point of view of the same ecology, the interaction of organisms with the environment, it is clear that during bird migrations there is always a certain waste and you can’t get away from it, that’s how life works.
— By waste, do you mean the loss of a certain number of animals?
— Yes, those that die during flights and short rests. But they try to save them too. This is motivated by empathy for wildlife, and perhaps this is a good thing. I myself love wildlife, but our human society treats it very differently. In some places we save migratory birds, and in others we build a high-speed highway, cutting down good habitats for the same birds. More will die there, but no one pays much attention to it. It seems to me that environmentalists in this sense sometimes stray from a reasonable balance and look in the wrong direction.
— In the situation with the same fuel oil spill in the Black Sea, they are now talking about how many dolphins died and are raising money for hospitals for them. I know that your institute has a different point of view on this issue.
— The way the dolphin works, it is extremely difficult for it to die by choking and poisoning with fuel oil. This is not a very feasible program. Perhaps this can happen, but it is hard to believe that this would cause mass death. It is more likely that this could be the death of animals in their nets: in such situations, fishermen, when they find a dolphin in their nets, simply release it, throw it back into the sea, and then this dolphin swims in an oil slick, all dirty, then it is thrown ashore - and the conclusion is made that it died from fuel oil. We are not at all sure of this. We are trying to participate in this, to get permission to autopsy the animals that die, but so far we have not succeeded.
— Why?
— It's hard to say. We contacted Rosprirodnadzor, talked to them for a long time, they told us to write a letter to get such permission. We wrote, they replied that they give permission to remove live animals from the wild, and dead ones are no longer their competence, you need to contact the veterinary service, but local veterinarians just take the dolphins away without doing an autopsy. Therefore, we cannot say anything objectively.
— Black Sea dolphins are a rare, protected species, and it would seem that the state is interested in conducting a thorough investigation of what is happening to them.
— Morally, it seems, they are interested, but in reality, everyone works within the scope of their authority. So far, interaction here has not been established.
— Your institute has a marine biological station in Utrish, and it has signed an agreement with this department to monitor the fate of the injured animals. But, as the head of this station, Andrei Valerievich Abramov, told me, not a single call has been received since the disaster, which occurred back in December.
— Maybe it’s because not everyone knows about us yet. One way or another, the question of how much the dolphins suffered from this ecological disaster remains open.
— But the fact that this is an ecological disaster is indisputable to you?
— Of course.
— What are the environmental consequences?
— Humans have destroyed some coastal biotopes where fuel oil was dumped. Then it was torn off along with the soil, and this aggravated the situation. These are different organisms living in the soil, worms, mollusks, other invertebrates. This is the most severe shock to the ecosystem.
— And the benthos, the birds?
— We have already talked about the birds — this is a problem, but the scale is not very clear. On the one hand, there are indeed a lot of birds, they number in the thousands, but within the framework of the entire group living in the Black Sea region... Here it is more likely that we need to assess individual rare species and the damage to them. I don’t know about the benthos, it seems to me that this is one of the least affected groups.
— Why?
— The problem with fuel oil is that its density changes depending on the temperature and it can move in water layers. I don’t think it all settles to the bottom, making life very difficult for benthos. It seems to me that benthos suffers significantly less compared to the littoral (coastal zone).
— The average person will read this and say: big deal, worms suffered — what a trifle. What harm is there?
— This is a food source for other invertebrates, and for birds, and for fish. Damage to the food source is bad, difficult. We don’t know how quickly natural communities will recover after this spill. But there could also be a separate story about the humans for whom all this could be very dangerous.
— Tell us about it.
— Heavy organic compounds, aromatic hydrocarbons are obtained, and they will be present in the environment for quite a long time. Then — their transformation into dioxins, organochlorine compounds, one of the most dangerous and most persistent pollutants of the environment. They were used during the Vietnam War as defoliants, causing trees to shed their leaves so that Vietnamese partisans could be found later. Dioxins are very dangerous for the human body too, and they are formed quite well when chlorine comes into contact with aromatic hydrocarbons. Chlorine is present in sea water, you just need to understand how intensively the formation occurs depending on the temperature and illumination. In addition, this fuel oil is burned, and dioxins are formed during combustion. This is the most dangerous thing. All this does not go anywhere — it either flies into the air or remains in the ground and can lead to serious consequences for humans. This is a change in the genetic activity of various cells of living organisms.
— Summer is coming. What will happen to these chemical processes? Will they accelerate?
— It is better to ask chemists about this, especially in terms of conversion to dioxins. However, I can say for sure: dioxins are already present there and are unlikely to disappear, especially after burning. As for the fuel oil that remains in the water, apparently, all new portions will gradually rise from the bottom, new emissions will occur. How intense, I can’t judge yet, but they will definitely happen.
— Can people do something really useful here?
— Volunteers are very useful: in general, this is saving animals, cleaning beaches. Rospotrebnadzor, in my opinion, does quite a lot, monitoring the situation in various regions, assessing the presence of certain harmful compounds in the water, in the air, taking measures to clean the shores. Control work is underway. The most important thing, probably, is to try to extract the second tanker that sank. It seems to have no leaks, but at the moment it has turned into a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, if not now, then in ten years, when the ship's hull rots, this will happen. This is probably the most important task now. Well, and cleaning up what continues to spill and will be spilling for some time.
— Is it worth going on vacation to the Black Sea? Surely everyone is interested in this question.
— I am not ready to give advice on this. Listen to Rospotrebnadzor.
— How should an ordinary person behave in nature so as not to harm it?
— I think the worst thing is a lot of plastic. If you have the opportunity to reduce the amount of plastic bags and plastic packaging you consume, that's good. I'm not talking about completely obvious things now, like not throwing it anywhere. I don't really trust biodegradable plastic, which is often sold in some stores. As a rule, all this turns into microplastic, which decomposes and still doesn't go anywhere. And it's even more dangerous.
— Chemists say that completely degradable plastic will appear soon.
— God willing. We're talking about what everyone can do by themselves. Reducing any amount of waste, in my opinion, is the main thing. When you're in the forest, please think about the trees around you, about the plants and animals that are nearby. If you see a hollow from which an owlet is peeking out, don't climb in there and check what it is and how many of them are there. There should be an understanding of a gentle attitude towards nature: if you went to the Losiny Ostrov National Park in the spring and saw a large number of primroses, do not pick them. This argument - "I picked three, what harm could that do, look how many there are" - is absolutely wrong. How many people came? You need to start with yourself.
— If we go back to Utrish, another ecological disaster recently happened there — a huge fire in the reserve. The staff told me that there have been many such fires over the years and all of them are man-made.
— Most of the fires here, and not only in this region, are man-made. In some cases, these are arson attacks, when people try to burn out some piece of dry grass either at their dacha or in the wild. In the Far East, they believe that if you burn out dry grass, it is easier to collect ferns — they are easier to see when they sprout. As a rule, this is not limited to the piece you want to burn. So the fire starts — either something flew out of your garden, or someone burned it out on purpose.
This is the first approach. The second — of course, if you are in the forest with a fire, you need to think about where to make it, and generally listen to recommendations on whether it is possible to make it. In very dry weather, it is strongly recommended not to make fires, because you can underestimate what is happening around you, you can accidentally make a fire on a peat bog, and then you will not be able to put it out. In all cases, you need to watch the fire, carefully put it out after you leave. And thirdly, cigarette butts. A burning cigarette butt can easily set dry grass on fire. It is easy to light, but extremely difficult to stop.
— What consequences can such fires have if they happen too often? Is it true that the ecosystem does not have time to recover?
— Some fires are natural in origin — maybe lightning struck. Sometimes this happens. Ecosystems recover after this, although certain changes occur. Colleagues have studied: for example, the soil fauna changes very clearly there. Relatively large animals, if the fire was big, and also individuals were trapped in the fire, there can be very large losses. Everything depends on the intensity of the fire, because burrowing animals can wait it out, and sometimes everything burns out completely. An ashen waste appears in place of the forest, and the new forest will take much longer to recover. Since this is a burnt-out forest that gradually overgrows, a different composition of the soil biota appears, which causes different mammals to come there.
But it is one thing when this happens once every 100 years, and another thing when this starts happening every five years in the same place, burning everything out. There is even a new term for the Far East: "pyrogenic oak forests." The Mongolian oak is not the largest, and there are very small oaks there that burn every year. There is a ground fire, all the grass burns out - and there is a relatively bare forest with oaks, which do not all bear fruit, because they have a hard time after the fire. Their importance as a food resource for the same ungulates is sharply reduced. In other words, as a result of regular fires, the ecosystem changes to something that is not typical for this region. "Eternal succession" occurs - the replacement of one biotope with another.
— Do you think that the global ecologization of human consciousness can happen, when all people understand how to behave in nature?
— I really hope so. We'll see how it will be in reality. There is a theory of animal behavior called "evolutionarily stable strategies" — the strategy of the dove and the hawk. In short, it looks like this: doves live, somehow compete with each other for resources, sort things out. Then suddenly a hawk appears — it will kill a dove, and will always kill others. There are many doves, one or two hawks, and the hawks feel very good about this, just great. They begin to actively reproduce, there are more of them, they begin to fight among themselves for food, compete, and at some point they no longer really care about doves. And suddenly it becomes more profitable to be a dove than a hawk.
What I mean is that, unfortunately or fortunately, this system works in our human society, and this can be clearly seen at various stages. Everyone grows organic products - everything is absolutely clean, without fertilizers, and we all start competing on equal terms. Then someone appears and says: "Let me sprinkle some chemicals here." And his watermelons are three times bigger! Everyone watches and also starts using chemicals. At some point, it turns out that people who grow clean products are the winners: the harvest may be small, but it is harmless. I have a feeling that it is almost the same with the same fires, with the same plastic. Almost everyone has stopped burning grass, and one says: "I will still set it on fire and collect four times more ferns." I don't know how to break this, but let's hope that it will work.
— How can this happen? What can you, your institute, do here?
— First of all, we need to start working with children. We actively participate in the Science 2.0 festivals, we show how science works, how to treat nature. We are primarily a scientific institute, but we are actively involved in this: we act as partners in a variety of initiatives to preserve both individual species and ecosystems.
— How do children react? Are they interested?
— Children are very interested in this, and it seems to me that the following phrase is appropriate here: “Now you will never be able to forget what you have learned.” When they have heard about it since childhood, felt it since childhood, it is harder for them to give it up.
— Employees of various reserves told me that such children even stop their parents when they do something wrong in nature: don't touch the turtle, don't pick a flower. And the parents feel ashamed. Is there such a tendency?
— Yes, it's true, and it's normal. So my main hope is for these children who have heard us today, and tomorrow with their reverent attitude to nature they will change the planet.
The interview was conducted with the support of the Ministry of Science and Higher Education of the Russian Federation